Puška za long range i issf 300m

[zdebat]

Pozdrav svima,
Razmišljam o pušci za dvije discipline, long range i issf 300m.
Znam da se čini nespojivo.
Pretpostavljam da bi to u osnovi bila puška za long range na koju bi se mogao bez velikih preinaka staviti diopterski ciljnik.
Kako u ovom dijelu nemam nikakvog iskustva volio bih čuti vaše mišljenje.
Koja puška i u kojem kalibru, sa spremnikom od 5 metaka.

[jolly]

Discipline koje trazis da pokrijes: 300 m puska, 300 m standard puska, F-open, i F-TR + Lokalni turniri, prema pravilu organizatora za pusku s optikom. Od tog su tri discipline zapravo lezeci stav, a jedna u trostavu. Tu ces morati odluciti koji kundak bi te zanimao, za lezeci ili za trostav?

Osnovno da se uklopi u ISSF (pa ce onda i u FTR):
Okidac 1500 grama
Duzina cijevi 762 mm
Max tezina bez optickog nisana, sa mehanickim, 5.5 kg. (kad stavis optiku, taman da ima kilo, opet si unutar Fopen i FTR - 8.25 kg, 10 kg)
Kalibar do 8 mm, ili manji.

Ogledni primjer:
Bleiker
https://ammoterra.com/product/bleiker-3 ... e-standard

Keppeler K09
https://www.krale.shop/eu/keppeler-300-m-standard/

Steyer model 300m
https://rerat-waffen.ch/steyr-300m-standard/


Hammerli 300 meter standard
https://edelweissarms.com/hammerli-tann ... e-sn-6xxx/

Ako zelis se natjecat u ISSF, zatim u F-open, i FTR, zapravo jedini kalibar je 308 win.
Kompromis u prici je kundak, jer u nijednom slucaju nije idealan za sve tri-cetiri discipline, ali po meni prolazno, manji problem.

Napominjem da ISSF pusku ne pamtim da sam vidio po long range turnirima, ali to ne mozra nista znaciti, mozda mi je samo promaklo.
Najveci dio pusaka su tvornicke tactical i varmint, odnosno f-class speicjalizirane puske koje vidjam.
Ovo je nova i svakako zanimljiva perspektiva

[zdebat]

Samo ležeći stav.
Prvenstveno long range, nisam siguran da na 300m pušku može ići optika a da ne smeta.
Nekako mi se čini da je diopter lakše nadograditi sa prihvatom na pušku.

[IB43]

Ja sam totalni početnik. Ne uzimaj me ozbiljno. Par stvari koje sam primjetio.

1. Očekuj probleme sa zečijim ušima na ISSF pušci radi oblika kundaka.
2. ISSF diopteri kod mene mogu na šinu, nema preinaka. Predviđena je i instalacija remena.
3. Za vrhunske rezultate u long range zaista bi trebalo imati uvjete i volje za reloading.

Eto, mali doprinos od mene. Iskusniji bolje znaju.

[stolttom]

U mom slučaju/izboru puške, ništa nije smetalo (osim što je nažalost sve izašlo papreno skupo).
Znači izabrana puška je G+E FT300 u 6.5x47 LAP.
Diopteri i FT kundak dolje, optika i FO kundak gore.
S obzirom na dužinu cijevi (max. dobavljivo 700mm), kalibar i slično, neko vrijeme bilo je kompetitivno u F-Class do 600m,
mada sam solidno* otpucao i 1000m na Baču 2015.

*Mojster 1000m, a solidno zbog toga što sam pucao bez kamere i uz bočni vjetar od 3-4m/s, pa je grupa bila promjera cca 25cm pomaknuta u 10 sati.
Kako je većina pucala pod istim uvjetima rezultat je bio dovoljan za drugo mjesto i titulu majstora 1000m.

U kalibru .308 Win, izabrana puška je bila SAKO TRG 22, a na gore spomenutom natjecanju dohvatio sam 3. mjesto.
Sa TRG-om sam pucao jako dugo i, osim jednom (kada sam s G+E i pobijedio) svaki GROM (300m), a čini mi se da samo
jednom nisam ušao u finale??? Trebalo bi kopati!

Moj skromni zaključak je da je, ovisno o budžetu, a s obzirom na dostupna natjecanja u RH
all round puška tvornička (polovna ili nova) u .308 Win!

[jolly]

Issf diopteri, meni idu preko lastinog repa, dove tail. A na to moze kasnije prihvatiti razne oblike montaze.
To je sitni detalj u cijeloj prici.
Mislim da je svojevremeno sauer prilagodio i napravio seriju issf pusaka, na bazi sauer 200, za neku od evropskih drzavnih ISSF federacija, za issf 300m.
Pogledati takodjer G and E puske

[jolly]

https://www.gruenel.ch/en-catalog-sport ... portrifles

[zdebat]

Hvala svima koji su se javili.
Gledam cijene, boli glava.

[jolly]

Cim platis, glavobolja prestaje, a pocinje gust!

[jolly]

Mislim da je svojevremeno sauer prilagodio i napravio seriju issf pusaka, na bazi sauer 200, za neku od evropskih drzavnih ISSF federacija, za issf 300m.

Evo nasao sam podatke. Sauer 200 STR.
Cijeli clanak vrlo je zanimljiv. Prvo kako su izveli testiranja da dodju do najbolje opcije, na ekonomskoj bazi za tri susjedna skandinavska nacionalna saveza. A zatim, kako su tri nacionalna saveza izveli suradnju (Norveska, Svedska, Danska), da im izbor puske drzi troskove pod kontrolom, i da izbjegnu utrku u skupljim modelima. Takodjer postoji i varijanta u 22lr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer_200_STR

Pri kraju texta sugerira i SIG Sauer SSG 3000, kao moderniziranu varijantu.

(Izbor puske sad gledam i kroz prizmu i kao kontrast nasim lokalnim pricama o izmjeni disciplina u nasem sustavu )

[zdebat]

Jolly, vidim da si stručnjak. Hvala ti, od velike si pomoći na ovom forumu.

[jolly]

Ima i vecih strucnjaka od mene, na forumu, samo su malo sramezljivi, ja se samo malo slepam iza njih, pratim kolko mogu.

[jolly]

Iako nije vezano za temu VK, nego sad za MK najbolji sistem proizvodnje puske ima Anschutz. S druge strane jest vezano za temu, jer je MK puska s optikom prateci dio vecine turnira u dalekometnom streljastvu, i idealna kombinacija za streijelca u dalekometnom streljastvu je da ima dvije puske, jednu u MK drugu u VK.

Kod Anschutza bazirali su serijsku proizvodnju na modularonosti i kompatibilnosti dijelova.
I po tome sloze pusku za pojedinu disciplinu.
Dvije akcije 54 i 64.
Okidaci, ovakvi, onakvi. Sila okidanja, itd
Cijevi po duzini ili debljini prema tehnickom pravilniku za pojedinu disciplinu.
Standard, trostav, bijatlon, itd....
Kundak ili sustav za remen prema disciplini.
Tezina prema tehnickom pravilniku.

I kad se uzme puska, uskladi se do savrsenstva prema pojedinoj disciplini ili se uz minimlani kompromis uzme da pokrije dvije discipline kod rekreatvinih strijelaca, samo onaj ko bira, mora znati tocno sto trazi. Ali kvaliteta i preciznost je unutar standarda.

Medjutim, osim custom proizvodjaca pusaka, vecina tvornica nije dosla na taj nivo proizvodnje, pa onda mi trazimo prema nekom kompromisu. Tako da imam dojam da je Anschutz tu jedinstven.

[jolly]

GUIDELINES TO ANSCHUTZ MODELS:

14XX - The rifle was made between 1954 and 1980. Rifles made 1954 -1976 have the wing safety bolt, and a straight handle.
Rifles made from 1977-1980 have a trigger safety, and conical bolt cap, plus a redesigned trigger and firing pin. Serial numbers
end in an X. Handles were straightb in '77-78, and curved in '79-'80. '77-'80 vintage rifles are often called 16xx, or Transitionmodels,
or X-Barrels to differentiate them.

18xx - The rifle was made between 1980 and 1987. The action/bolt/trigger is very similar to the 16xx, but with enough
differences that bolts/triggers are not interchangeable.

19XX - The rifle was made in 1987 or after. The action is the same as the 18xx (bar one miniscule change). The foresight
mounting switched from a dovetail block to grooves cut directly into the muzzle (now a slightly larger diameter to suit). the
1907 has a slightly shorter and lighter barrel than the 1913. The 1907 can also be found as a repeater, although extremely rare

XX13 - AKA The Supermatch. This is Anschutz's top of the line Olympic Free Rifle. It has a walnut thumbhole stock. The butt is
adjustable for LOP via a thumbscrew, and height, and offset/cant after the late '60s. Post '73 the cheekpice has been adjustable.
Barrel is 69cm long and about 24mm diameter.

XX11 - The Prone rifle, Made 1954 to about 2000. This had a broad, straight fore-end. It has the same heavy 69cm barrel as the

XX13.

XX07 - 1954-1964- A Lightweight 9lb rifle.

1968?- Present - The UIT Standard, an 11lb rifle in a basic 3-P stock. The barrel is 66cm/26in and lighter than the XX11/XX13.
The fore-end is deeper than the XX11 or XX13. Most XX07 for-ends are flush with the triggerguard and then taper up.

XX10 - 197? -2000ish, a cheaper version of the XX13. It has the same barrel but a different stock. The stock is beech, and the
fore-end tapers like an XX07.

XX09 - 1960s - A cheaper version of the 1413, without the LOP adjustment.

1970s-2000 an XX07 barrel in an XX10 stock.

XX08 - 1965-196? Anschutz's first UIT standard rifle, for reasons unknown the model number was changed to 1407.
1970s- Running Target rifle.

1912 - 1997-Present, a scaled down 1913 with a 1907 barrel to meet the 6.5kg weight limit for the ISSF Ladies Sport rifle rules.
Hunting and Sporting Rifles

14xx Sporting rimfires are built on the 64 action

17xx Sporting rimfires are built on the 54 action

1770 Current Centerfire Hunting production in .223 caliber only, medium weight barrel

1780 Current Centerfire Hunting rifles in 308, 30-06, 8x57 IS, 9.3x62
Anschutz has marketed is 64 action through third party vendors such as CIL in Canada, and Weatherby in the U.S. To my
Anschutz 54 action has never been used by any other manufacturer other than Anschutz.

Markings
D - Single stage trigger
E = Singler loader
G = Barrel thread
HB = Heavy Barrel
FL = Folding leaf sight
L = Left hand version
MP = Multi purpose
R = Repeater
Silh = Silhouette

[jolly]

INTERNATIONAL BENCH REST AND F-CLASS RIM FIRE RIFLE RULES:

SECTION 4: RIFLE SPECIFICATIONS AND CLASSES
4.1 All rifles must have a safe trigger system that is released by a finger of either hand, and have a trigger guard. There will be six
classes of rifle for group shooting, the specifications of which are shown in this Section 4 and four classes for application shooting and
such specifications are shown in Section 17. Muzzle Brakes are not allowed in any Benchrest competition.

4.2 EXPERIMENTAL / UNLIMITED BENCHREST RIFLE
This shall be any rifle having a barrel not less than 18 inches (457.2 mm) long, measured from the bolt face to the muzzle, and a safely
operated firing mechanism. The magnification of any telescopic sight shall be unrestricted. It may be fired from restricted or unrestricted
rests (as defined in Section 5).

4.3 HEAVY BENCHREST
This shall be any rifle having a barrel not less than 18 inches long, measured from the bolt face to the muzzle, and a safe, manually
operated, firing mechanism that does not include the use of pressure fluid, gas or remote control. The use of an electric trigger is
permitted; however, all accessories associated with such trigger, such as batteries, must be integrated as part of the rifle and included in
the total rifle weight. The width of the stock shall not exceed 3 inches (76.2 mm) at any SSAA Benchrest Rifle Official National Rules Part A
Group & Score Championships No. 8 (Rev 2013) 11pooint. The magnification of telescopic sight shall be unrestricted. The total weight of the
rifle and telescopic sight, including all accessories such as mirage shades and batteries for electric triggers, shall not exceed 13 pounds
8 ounces (6.123 kg). The rifle must be fired from restricted rests only.

4.4 LIGHT BENCHREST
This shall be any rifle that does not have a total weight in excess of 10 pounds 8 ounces (4.763 kg) including telescopic sight and all
accessories, but otherwise meets the specifications of the Heavy Benchrest Rifle, (Section 4.3) and shall be fired from restricted rests
only.

4.5 SPORTER BENCHREST
This shall be any rifle that does not have a total weight in excess of 9 pounds (4.082 kg) including telescopic sight and all accessories,
but otherwise meets the specifications of the Heavy Benchrest Rifle (Section 4.3) and shall be fired from restricted rests only.

4.6 .22LR LIGHT RIMFIRE BENCHREST RIFLE
This shall be any rimfire rifle, chambered for the .22 calibre long rifle rimfire cartridge only, that does not have a total weight in excess of
7 pounds 12 ounces (3.515 kg) including telescopic sight and all accessories, and the telescopic sight shall be restricted to 6
magnifications (variable magnification telescopic sights shall be set at 6 magnifications or less and taped) and the width of the stock shall
not exceed 2.25 inches (57.15 mm) at any point, but otherwise meets the specifications of the Heavy Benchrest Rifle (Section 4.3) and
shall be fired from restricted rests only.

4.7 .22LR HEAVY RIMFIRE BENCHREST RIFLE
This shall be any rimfire rifle, chambered for the .22 calibre long rifle rimfire cartridge only, that does not have a total weight in excess of 14 pounds
(6.350 kg) including telescopic sight and all accessories, but otherwise meets the specifications of the Heavy Benchrest Rifle (Section 4.3) and shall be
fired from restricted rests only.
3.1.1 Smallbore F‐Class Rifle
(a) F‐Class Open (F‐O) Rifle ‐ A rifle restricted to fire .22 LR.
“Rail guns” and positive mechanical methods of returning to the pre65
cise point of aim for the prior shot are not permitted. Any safe, manually
operated trigger is permitted. Provisions of Rule 3.16 Release
Triggers applies to this definition. Any sighting system is permitted,
but it must be included in the rifle’s overall weight.
(1) The rifle’s overall weight, including all attachments such
as sights and bipod, must not exceed 8.25 kilograms (approximately
18.18 pounds). An “attachment” also includes any external object,
other than the competitor and apparel, which recoils or partially recoils
with the rifle, or which is clamped, held, or joined in any way to the
rifle for each shot, or which even slightly raises with the firing of the
rifle from the rests.
(2) The width of the rifle’s forend shall no exceed 76mm
(approximately 3 inches).
(3) The rifle must be fired in the prone position from the shoulder
of the competitor using rifle rests as defined in Rule 3.1.2(a).
(b) F‐Class Target Rifle (F‐TR) ‐ A rifle restricted to fire .22
LR. The rifle must be fired off a bipod, rigidly attached to the rifle’s
forend, and/or a sling. Any bipod, meeting the definition of a bipod,
may be used but its weight must be included in the rifle’s overall
weight. Any safe, manually operated trigger is permitted. Provisions of
Rule 3.16 Release Triggers applies to this definition. Any sighting system
is permitted, but it must be included in the rifle’s overall weight.
(1) The rifle’s overall weight, including all attachments such as
sights, sling and bipod, must not exceed 8.25 kilograms (approximately
8.18 pounds). An “attachment” also includes any external object,
other than the competitor and apparel, which recoils or partially recoils
with the rifle, or which is clamped, held, or joined in any way to the
rifle for each shot, or which even slightly raises with the lifting of the
rifle from its rest/firing point.
(2) The rifle must be fired in the prone position from the shoulder
of the competitor using rifle rests as defined in Rule 3.1.2(b).

[Marko2Marko]

A: biram auto za 450kmh+!
B: bugatti, koenigsegg...
A: preskupo, imam 20k€
B: wtf ?

[Marko2Marko]

ja bi možda uzeo sabatti str sport i dodao dioptere.
ali svaka puška može biti za issf, ako ne izmeš f-class kundak.

[lex-lutor]

Auuuuuuuuuuuu... nemojmo biti kao nasi politicari pa napraviti problem iz nicega !

1. Jedna puska za sve = NE Postoji idemo dalje.

2. Postoji budget u koji se moramo uklopiti = imam toliko para i mogu kupiti X-pusku + Y-optiku + Z-dodatnu opremu

3. Sto got da odabers za prvi puta = pogresit ces, nemoj se nervirati jer smo svi prosli korz tu fazu...

Sretno...

[jolly]

3. Sto got da odabers za prvi puta = pogresit ces, nemoj se nervirati jer smo svi prosli korz tu fazu...

.

Ajde, ajde, ne mora tako biti... kolega je vec na pravom putu!

[Marko2Marko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntv9RvtGwcQ

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/20 ... lma-rifle/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS6y54lSKY4